A comment on the subjunctive

Question

While I was in Guatemala, I was looking for a store that was open all night. I could have said "Busco una tienda que está abierta toda la noche." (using the indicative) or "Busco una tienda que esté abierta toda la noche." (subjunctive)

The first statement indicates that I know there is such a store, and I'm trying to find it. There is no doubt that it exists and is open all night, so I use the indicative. In English: I'm looking for the store that's open all night.

The second statement indicated that I'm hoping there's a store that's open all night. In English: I'm looking for a store that might be open all night.

To me the subtlety of this change was interesting. One letter changes, and the meaning of the entire sentence changes. Maybe this will help some of you who are struggling with the subjunctive.

Tal vez, esto les ayude a algunos que estén luchando con el subjuntivo.

If you have any other specific examples, please add them to this thread.

• Great thread on a conceptually difficult language structure. - Rolest Jul 28, 2010
• Yes, this is a good thing to mention that one might not realize after a cursory study of the mode. - MacFadden Jul 28, 2010
• Struggle with the subjuctive?? That's a certain fact, no maybe about it, so re-write the estén to están luchando - qfreed Jul 28, 2010
• Thanks this was very helpful - 0097f7e0 Jul 28, 2010

Answer 1

In conversation with my fiancee (Mexican), I've learned a fairly regular use of the subjunctive that I never learned in classes.

Following the word cuando, if they are sure when an event will happen, they stick with the indicative. But, if they aren't sure, they'll use subjunctive.

A common one is:

Te aviso cuando llego a casa. - I'll let you know when I'm home. Te aviso cuando llegue a casa. - I'll let you know when I'm home (but there might be a lot of traffic, so I don't know when that will be exactly).

Hope this helps!

• This is exactly the subtle difference that I was trying to demonstrate. Great answer. - CalvoViejo Jul 28, 2010
• Indeed, very helpful. :) - galsally Jul 29, 2010

Answer 2

Tal vez (Quizás) tienes que ir al médico si no estás bien.

Some of the problems here result from different viewpoints between English and Spanish.

I just read a discussion on creer and the subjunctive that detailed the difference between what an English person thinks that I believe means and what an Spanish speaker thinks I believe means.

To an English speaker, if we know something we are 100% sure of it. If we believe something we are saying that we are less than 100% sure so we are expressing some degree of doubt.

The Spanish person doesn't hear that doubt. When he says creo que he is saying this is my opinion or belief and he is not saying that he isn't 100% certain of something. He is asserting that something is probable or likely.

That cultural difference is why so many English speakers have trouble understanding why creer and pensar aren't expressing doubt even when used positively.

Something similar happens with the use of Perhaps (tal vez). To the English speaker Perhaps connotes doubt or uncertainty.

In the same manner the Spanish speaker does not hear the doubt or uncertainty with tal vez. To the Spanish speaker that sentence above says You probably need to go to a doctor if you aren't feeling well. Again, it's stating something probable. Not certain, but likely, I think that , it's my opinion that....

Tengo un coche que sea muy deportivo. I have a car that is very sporty.

This one seems more obvious to me. I have a car that may be sporty. He's expressing doubt, since the fact is entirely subjective, depending on each person's criteria for defining sporty.

If he had used the indicative, he would have been saying I have a car that I believe to be sporty (is probably sporty-no doubt heard-his opinion).

• I understand what you're saying, but am still left with that statement from Websters indicating that quizás and tal vez can be used to express either doubt or certainty. Sheldon has pointed out that the subject of both phrases is the same which is - galsally Aug 1, 2010
• something I hadn't spotted. Thanks for that explanation of the different viewpoints, that's really useful. :) - galsally Aug 1, 2010

Answer 3

I'm still a little confused here Calvo (what's new ^^)

"Busco una tienda que está abierta toda la noche."

In English: I'm looking for the store that's open all night.

It appears to me that it's the fact that you want to find the store which is open all night which makes the sentence indicative. However in Spanish you said a store, which makes it sound as though you're not sure one exists. Is that just one of those 'easy-to-make' errors and you intended to write Busco la tienda.... ?

Also re Quentin's comment, I'm guessing you have written estén luchando because of your hope that people find the thread helpful, not because there is any doubt at all whether or not people will have difficulties with the Subjunctive. (which deserves not only a capital letter but a certificate of Guaranteed Struggles to come..)

I wonder if it should be :

Tal vez, esto les ayude a algunos que están luchando con el subjuntivo.

Because it may help, but we are certainly struggling?

Thank you, I hope this isn't hard to understand.

• You're right that it should be "Tal vez, esto les ayude ..." I'm changing it. - CalvoViejo Jul 28, 2010

Answer 4

Thank you for this example..it certainly does help!

Answer 5

This was helpful.

Answer 6

Hopefully it's ok to return to this recent thread with another question!

I have been doing more swotting on the subjunctive in my Websters New World Spanish Grammar (as recommended by Benz!)

I really don't understand why the second sentence (in bold) in the following example is considered to express certainty and therefore uses indicative. To me, perhaps in English always expresses uncertainty. If I wanted to express a certainty I would say "You need to go to the doctor if you are unwell."

Tal Vez and Quizás

Tal vez and quizás, both meaning “perhaps,” require the subjunctive when doubt or uncertainty exists. The indicative is used when there is certainty:

Tal vez (Quizás) vengamos con Uds. Perhaps we will come with you.

Tal vez (Quizás) tienes que ir al médico si no estás bien. Perhaps you need to go to the doctor if you aren’t well.

From another page I find

Tengo un coche que sea muy deportivo. I have a car that is very sporty.

(The explanation is similar to your example above Calvo, ie If the person or thing mentioned clearly exists, then the indicative is used.)

Once more, it appears to me that this car does exist and yet we see the subjunctive of Ser. If the initial verb was desear, querer or buscar (to name but a few) I would understand, but tener?

¡Ayúdame por favor!

• If the subject of the two phrases connected by que is the same, you don't use the subjunctive. - lorenzo9 Jul 31, 2010
• Thank you, that explains the doctor question, I should have seen it. :) - galsally Aug 1, 2010