Do we need an AaRRRRghhhh list?

Question

There are many mistakes which are commonly made by English speakers but which should not be passed on to new learners. It is not possible to police every occurence of these but it would be possible to have a list of warnings available to Spanish speakers who are learning English.

My first of these comes from a previous thread where it was raised.

NEVER write or say:

"I might of" - it should be "I might have" the first has no meaning.

"Off of" - the single preposition "off" carries all the meaning and "of" is totally redundant. Lewis Carroll's caterpillar slid "off" the mushroom not "off of" it just as Humpty Dumpty fell "off" the wall. (Note that around 97% of the USA uses "off of" but that doesn't make it right.)

He gave (to) "my wife and I" a gift. "I" is the Nominative case and should never follow a preposition, even an understood preposition like the unheard "to" in the example. (This results from an earlier mistake "Me and my wife went to a party". Grammatically if "I went to a party" then so did "My wife and I".) ...but note that "me and my wife did whatever" has the sanction of long, long usage and is acceptable in informal conversation while "to my wife and I" is a relatively modern piece of nonsense with neither grammatical nor historic basis.

Please let's have some more examples.

• Me and my colleagues .... lol, sorry couldn't help myself - Kiwi_Girl May 24, 2010
• Congratulations! A fantastic post to avoid making the typical mistakes the English learners usually make!. It´s very helpful!!! - Anuk May 25, 2010
• Great idea! - JulianChivi May 25, 2010

Answer 1

Oh wow, this is like, awesome!

I of wanted to have an outage for my frustration over this situational, and I am like, super-happy to finally have an tread where I can expressionate myself, irregardless of what others may say. About this issue, because I and my friends, we think this is, you know, very important.

I might of waited some more afore talking about this, you know, thing that I am gonna talk about. Like wait until I feeled more confidential of the group and the people and stuff. But I am becoming extremely a little bit mad about the hole nonsensical, and I know that I can't knot hold it any longer.

I know where you are getting to and where I am at, and being as it is that I and Julian and Heidita and Marianne, you know, all the others, we are such experimentated and complied speakers, we are in the bestest position to learn all the iggerant peoples who right horrible things in the forum all the time, making confusion and distracting the learners from learning good English forms, you know, that don't loose time and applicate ourselves to studying the rules and the idiom.

I am so gladly to be part of this almost uniquely outlet of expression, where the people, they can express, you know, thier concerns and thier questions, and get answers and stuff, and also to be may be a contributionist to thier requisition of more language and a bigger lever of more higher understanding.

But, really, I don't no want to take anymore of your valorous time and sound like I am like whining and making my self troublesome, so I am thankfully for the space and the opportunism to express my toughs on, you know, this subjectivity.

Thanks you very muchly for hearing to me!

• Oooh...loose time/weight...like fingernails on a chalkboard! ; ) - mar959 May 25, 2010
• Oh my goodness, did that just flow? How long did that take? Priceless! - margaretbl May 25, 2010
• Wonderfully put Gekko. - geofc May 25, 2010
• I couldn't of said it better! Ha! - DR1960 May 25, 2010
• Can I vote 10 times? Please? - patch May 25, 2010
View 5 more commments >>

Answer 2

Hi Geof

Yes there many such problems with English but if you concentrate too much on them you will frighten students away. Many times they can not be explained using rules of Grammar.

And I don't know if a comprehensive list exists (or could exist) anyway.

• A quick search for common English grammar errors gives 2950000 results. There just may be a good list in there. - geofc May 25, 2010
• I have to disagree. After having taught ESL for 7 years, I can assure you that most ESL students would welcome a list like this, just for reference. Besides, English, in general, is spoken better by foreigners than by natives - a real shame. - JulianChivi May 25, 2010
• Lists are never "absorbed" in my opinion - how would one organise such a list of 2,950,000 entries anyway? - ian-hill May 25, 2010

Answer 3

Good points, all. I will nominate "irregardless" and "I could care less".

In general I avoid picking nits with language learners. It tends to discourage them. People who should know better, like those raised in the language, should have their nits picked, of course. It probably won't do any good, though. Try getting a teenager to stop using the word "like" as a comma.

• Agree - in the end the students just stop talking much less writing. - ian-hill May 24, 2010
• Yes - those are both pet peeves of mine. They both technically mean the opposite of what their speakers wish to imply. - StillLearnin May 25, 2010
• So, like, you don't like like? :) - amykay Jun 6, 2010

Answer 4

I'm pretty new to the forum, but I'll add my two cents:

I'll separate issue # 1 from issues # 2 and # 3. If I heard a student say, "I might of," I would coach the student out of this as soon as possible as I think it is (and sounds like) a more egregious error. Based upon the second and third examples, however, I would advise that only highly advanced English students read such a forum. I think beginning students have many things to tackle before they get to this level of grammatical study and might only be confused by some of the topics. If I had a friend learning English who was only making these types of mistakes, I would consider his command of English excellent. I feel your pain with the grammatical errors, but these types of issues are probably very low priority for beginning and intermediate students. I would consider them more "refinement" issues for an advanced speaker. A lot of this thinking is based upon my own experiences as a Spanish student. If a teacher had tried to explain to me the grammatical errors I was making by not using the subjunctive before I had learned more basic verb conjugation, for example, I know I would have been pretty confused!

With all that said, I think the such a forum might be interesting and useful for an advance speaker.

• What Kevin said: "In general I avoid picking nits with language learners. It tends to discourage them. " And he said it much more concisely! - chris126 May 24, 2010

Answer 5

I agree with Ian, it can be counter productive to make too much of correct grammar early on in a students learning , as long as they are not making silly mistakes one can influence them slowly and more importantly by example. In the English speaking countries around the world there are vast differences of usage and degrees of "correctness" as there are I presume in the Spanish speaking world , therefore we have to show a little tolerance . Perhaps more carrot and less stick. But a good point and well worth making thank you Geof.

Answer 6

My favorite passage from Strunk and White seems vaguely relevant here, so I thought I'd share it. Though not the most common in every day speech, it is still often seen, good to know, and amusingly explained by old Strunk and White:

Flammable. An oddity, chiefly useful in saving lives. The common word meaning "combustible" is inflammable. But some people are thrown off by the in- and think inflammable means "not combustible." For this reason, trucks carrying gasoline or explosives are now marked flammable. Unless you are operating such a truck and thus concerned with the safety of children and illiterates, use inflammable.

Note: the last instance of 'flammable' is written in capital letters in the original, but you are all no doubt familiar with the unintended side-effects of the 'no shouting' rule on the forums, which prohibit me from preserving the original.

Answer 7

“10 items or less” This is what millions of people see every day.

“10 items or fewer” This is the correct version that I have only seen displayed in some northern states of the US.

Answer 8

geofc I agree with you 100 percent, do not let student learn the wrong way. It might seem that is what American school do but that doesn't make it right. "Youngens" now-a-day sound like retards and let's not even talk about how they write...it's frightening. One simple correction though geofc, due to the way I was raised I would properly say "my wife and I", always be a gentleman and put the donkey second…if of course being a gentleman has any value.

"I am better thEn you", now that is one that really gets on my last nerve, unfortunately not the only one. Let's move onto "I ain't got no nothing" otherwise said around here "I ain't got no nuting" whoohoo...what can you expect, North Carolina is (or was) #49 in education only outdone by the great Alabama. Notice that NC is not bad at everything, we were #2 nationwide for the number of STD's. We almost won this one.

Here is a simple quizz/test: do you know the difference between "I speak good English" and "I speak English well"? Is there a difference?

Indeed there is:

• In "I speak good English", "good" is an adjective denoting the quality of the English being spoken.
• In "I speak English well", "well" is an adverb denoting the skill of the speaker at speaking English.

That brings us to say that it is possible to speak bad English well (as many do) or to speak good English not so well (as learners do.) Since we are talking about good and well..."Hello, how are you?"..."I'm good!" Noooooo, you might be a good person or you might taste like candy but that is not what I asked you. I meant to greet you and ask how you were feeling, then you should be well...not good.

Finally, one of the reasons why native English (I am thinking about younger generations and I feel for them) can't speak it properly. They are learning it, reading it and using it on Internet.

• Football managers (soccer in the USA) when talking about players often say "The boy done good" arrrgghh !! - ian-hill May 25, 2010
• 'They are learning it, reading it and using it on Internet.' Amen. Nuff said. - chica_rica May 25, 2010

Answer 9

I just remember one my ex-wife would annoy me with: I might would...ouch that hearts my fingers just typing it.

• Spanish 15+ tenses
• French 15 + tenses
• English 3 tenses, present, future, past...not even used properly (jk)

• But + the modals which gives English verbs x 11. Just tell people that there are never ever consecutive modals. - ian-hill May 25, 2010

Answer 10

I'll go for zero and not "oh" when reciting numbers. zero, one, two, three, four. I got lambasted many a time for using "oh" when I meant zero. I still remember getting yelled at for hours by my dad about it.

• Where are you from Jeezle "oh" is the norm in England "zero" is the norm in the USA. - ian-hill May 24, 2010
• That's a good one, I'm not sure about the 'oh' in England, wouldn't that be nought? I personally say zero most of the time but when reading a phone number I would say 'oh'. Funny how you often don't think about nuances of grammar until someone points th - Kiwi_Girl May 24, 2010
• thanks jeezle,I use zero and it is now very common usage ,it's obligatory over the phone. - ray76 May 25, 2010
• I had never heard that before. Only time I did was James Bond (double O seven). Imagine saying zero zero seven...not very hot hum :0) - sfrenchie May 25, 2010

Answer 11

One of the commonly used English expressions that make me go AaRRRRghhhh is:

Where I am at, or Where are you at?

The "at" in the above (and similar) expressions is totally unnecessary. Whenever I hear one of those (which is far too often these days) the gears grind in my mind!

• That is interesting....it will make me more aware of my own words! - StillLearnin May 25, 2010
• Maybe unnecessary, but it's still correct. "Where are you at?" "I'm at my house." - bmancornelio May 25, 2010
• Lmao...correct...nooooooo.....redneck, yesssss. - sfrenchie May 25, 2010
• The problem is the "at" does not always imply a physical location. - ian-hill May 25, 2010
• No prepositions at the end of a sentence. That's the rule. - Sihara May 25, 2010
View 1 more commments >>

Answer 12

One of the most important things I'd say to a learner of English: do NOT learn from the natives when it comes to the expression "um," or "like." This could be a dangerous trap for learners who could feel tempted to fill their thinking gap with some audible noise. Even I struggle to remain silent rather than mutter something when I think between words.

Another tip: the word "absolutely" is overrated. Do NOT use it as a one-size-fits-all, universal affirmative expression.

Follow advice like this and that of the other posters on this forum, and you'll avoid sounding like "the typical American" and perhaps impress your English teachers! But if a learner obtains bad habits, he or she will fit in with most American speakers - a bittersweet reality.

Interesting topic!

Answer 13

It is usually said as "should of" and not "should off" but both are wrong.

Often heard with "could" and "would"and "might" and "will" and "may" and "must" and even "shall" as well.

All 8 are Modals and the verb that follows a modal is always a base verb (the infinitive without the "to"). In other words the "of" should be "have".

One of the few rules of English that has no exceptions.

The problem arises because we contract the "have" and say "should've" etc and that can be difficult to hear correctly.

• thanks ian, I have changed it - Heidita May 25, 2010

Answer 14

I want to when I hear "it´s almost unique". It´s either unique or not.

• "Very unique" is worse I think. - ian-hill May 25, 2010

Answer 15

Ver nice thread, Jeff

I am going to call our English students to this.

I find the "should of/would of" extremely common even among very well spoken people. I have heard both Eddy and Markbaker say that!

• Thank you Heidi. - geofc May 25, 2010