Can some one please help me understand "Se te olvidan tus amigas."?

Question

I was chatting on line with a friend that speaks only Spanish. She wrote "se te olvidan tus amigas". I have asked other Spanish speaking friends who also speak English to translate the sentence. They translated the sentence for me but they couldn't explain the Spanish grammar very well. Here is my confusion. First the translation:

Se te olvidan tus amigas = You forget your friends.

Okay, here it goes....

1. I don't understand "Se". It's too vague.. I am not going to try and pretend that I understand.
2. I think "te" is the direct object.
3. I think "tus amigas" is the subject of the sentence because the verb "olvidan" is plural.

How does the Spanish direct object become the subject of the sentence when translated to English? How does the subject of the Spanish sentence become the direct object when translated to English?

Any clarity and anyone can offer is greatly appreciated.

Answer 1

I forgot to mention that one or more therapy sessions may be required during your struggle to come to grips with the many usages of se. And, I am not yet certain that it can be fully "understood."

• That is very funny. Thanks. :) - rgrove36 Mar 3, 2010

Answer 2

Se is the direct object.

Te is the indirect object.

Tus amigas IS the subject.

Literally: your friends forget themselves to you

But, forget the literal translation. This is an example of passive se or possibly impersonal se.

Here's another article about passive se, and another one about se in general.

• Okay, so "te" is the inderect object. That doesn't change the confusion factor. How does an indirect object in a Spanish sentence become the subject of an English sentence? - rgrove36 Mar 3, 2010

Answer 3

Okay, so "te" is the inderect object. That doesn't change the confusion factor. How does an indirect object in a Spanish sentence become the subject of an English sentence?

Please have the number of your therapist ready...

I'm going to attack the opposite question, "How does the subject of an English sentence become the indirect object of a Spanish sentence?" I will do an insufficient job at that, but my attempt at explaining it the other way round would probably be even more clumsy.

Part of the answer lies in the fact that the Spanish is using a "passive" voice (called commonly Passive SE), it's not really passive, but Spanish uses it like it was passive. In "passive" SE, the causer (agent) of the action is not allowed to be mentioned.

In English, the passive voice converts the direct object (your friends, in this case) to the subject, and the subject, if it is mentioned at all, is converted to the object of the preposition BY. (By the way, Spanish has a real passive voice, which does allow mention of the agent, which becomes the object of the preposition POR).

(Active) You are forgetting your friends => (Passive)Your friends are being forgotten by you

But, remember, the passive SE disallows mention of the agent (you, in this case), so it's just...

Your friends are being forgotten => Se olvidan tus amigos (literally, your friends are forgetting themselves)

Now, how does the subject become the INDIRECT OBJECT? Well, remember, the agent or cause of the action is NOT allowed in the passive SE construction. So, apparently Spanish is viewing you, not as the cause of the action, but rather as an innocent bystander, an indirect recipient of the action.

You are forgetting your friends => Your friends are forgetting themselves on you => Se te olvidan tus amigos.

ON??? Yes, on. Many find it helpful to think of it as though the indirect objects in these types of sentences were the object of the preposition ON, like me is in the phrase "He's quitting ON me" -- just to try to help our English-wired brains see it as an indirect object (indirect recipient of the action). But, you could also view it, I guess, as something your friends are doing TO you or as an unfortunate event (your friends are being forgotten) that is happening TO you.

Here is more about No-fault SE or SE inocente, it has some good examples.

Your therapist is probably fitting you for your straitjacket right now...

• Thanks for being a good sport about this. I have not had time to check out the links you've provided, but I will. You efforts to explain this are appreciated. :) - rgrove36 Mar 3, 2010
• The link is a lot simpler than my "explanation" here, trust me. More along the lines of "this is the pattern, do it this way." - webdunce Mar 3, 2010