Why do you perpetuate racial separation, and the degradation of the black man w/your example.

Question

Justify please, the racist, polarizing, degrading phrase found in the spanish definition of slave-to slave away->trabajar como un negro. If I have misinterpretation please clarify, if not, please make the proper changes.

Thank you

El esclavo blanco

• category - Heidita Sep 21, 2009

Answer 1

The "You all lie!" comment was a satirical, referencing what happened this past week when an American congressman screamed this at Barak Obama -- a TRULY great man -- while he was laying out his plan to save our country from the healthcare disaster we currently have. I actually agree that any reference to a racial or ethnic or religious group in a definition of "slave" is, while perhaps effective, is unnecessary and disrespectful. My comment was a topical one meant to cut through the pretence that racism is somehow no longer an issue and that it isn't hidden just under the surface of so many daily interactions.

What can I say but, "Can't we all just get along here?" (Another topical reference to the "Rodney King Incident")

Answer 2

Seems pretty clear to me...to work like a slave. African Americans weren't the only slaves in the history of mankind, and I don't personally take offence to it. Jews were slaves too. Tainos were slaves....get over your self. I guess my real answer is who cares? WE didn't have anything to do with the dictionary, it's not our fault. You should write to the author and complain

• if blacks werent the only slaves in history,why are thry used in this definition as such - pat76 Sep 21, 2009
• Don't overlook many of the white "indentured" slaves that settled this country. - qfreed Sep 21, 2009
• dont overlook the white,black,brown,red,yelloy,wage sleves today.dont overlook the asians bought and sold to build americas railroads,dont forget the natives,who were early plantation workers.thank you for helping crystalize my general point - pat76 Sep 21, 2009
• Scottish Protestants were also sold as slaves to the new world for not saying the king is the head of the church amoung other reasons. - Seitheach Sep 21, 2009

Answer 3

I think some of you guys are barking up at the wrong tree here. Any complaints about the Spanish language should be addressed to the RAE. RAE stands for Real Academia Española, which prescribes rules about the Spanish language and grammar etc. Come to think of it, at least you have the RAE to complain to, unlike English, which is not prescribed by anyone.

http://www.rae.es/rae.html

• Of course. End of discussion. - Goyo Sep 21, 2009

Answer 4

Would saying "trabajar como un burro" get a similar thread from some animal rights' defender?

• Watch out for p.e.t.a! (I would capitalize it but the site won't let me) :-D - Nathaniel Sep 21, 2009
• lol, eres genial guille - Heidita Sep 21, 2009
• This is a strange comparison. While not wanting to invite too much cosmic consciousness discussion, burros are uniquely designed to be beast of burden. Human beings -- and Africans in specific -- are not! - 1nomad Sep 21, 2009
• Well... during the times of American slavery... one could argue that they were. - Nathaniel Sep 21, 2009
• trabajo,como un burro,diario,alante de hispanos,y negros,todos esclavas del dinero y seperada de ideas falsas de rasa - pat76 Sep 21, 2009
View 1 more commments >>

Answer 5

It's exactly this political correctness which is insidiously creeping into our culture. I look up the word "nigger" in Collins dictionary and get the following definitions.

1. A black person
2. A dark skinned person
3. Nigger in the woodpile - a hidden cause of trouble.

The dictionary does, however, list all these terms as offensive. Are you suggesting that all words of this type are removed from all dictionaries. They need to remain documented if only to remind mankind of what has gone before.

On a lighter note but illustrating how absurd this political correctness is becoming, a canteen in a county of England has banned a desert called "Spotted Dick". The reason, the word "Dick" over here can be associated with the male appendage. This sweet has had this name since 1850. It must now called "Spotted Richard Pudding". Which now brings into question some other names.

1. Dick Turpin (infamous highwayman) - Richard Turpin
2. Black Pudding - Ethnic Minority Pudding
3. Tarts - Morally Loose Pastries
4. Faggots - Meat balls of indeterminate gender

Need I go on.

• yor missing my point,its not a matter of semantics,and danm politcal correctness.the quetion is mesnt more to stimulate thought about WhY the word slave is synonamous w/black.a word is just a word,i agree . - pat76 Sep 21, 2009
• I thought that faggot meant bundle of sticks, or, in England was also used to refer to a cigarette. - Nathaniel Sep 21, 2009
• who on first - pat76 Sep 21, 2009
• The word slave is synonymous with black people because we have forgotten that ALL races of people have at some time been slaves. Slavery is not a recent invention of the white race. - ian-hill Sep 21, 2009

Answer 6

I like the idea that his comment was so thought provoking. However, the term slave and other such references to blacks such as **** are no longer hurtful to me as a black woman. When I see or hear such utterances by all sorts of people and in literature I just think this goes back to a time when Americans were not as wise about the richness that black people have added to America. This is the great legacy of the United States, land of the free and home of the ....

Answer 7

Although for me racism = stupidity...

Would you insist on banning expression "black market" from being used?

Respectfully

Behemoth (who considers too much seriousness serious disease)

• thx for your resronse,and i see tour point abuot misenterpritation,but while i agree w/you in a certain sense,ie black maret,black magic,black cat.this case i see as being purelt racislly motivated - pat76 Sep 21, 2009

Answer 8

Sayings and idioms enter a language to convey more complex ideas and with fewer words.

One example is to say that someone doesn't have a "Chinaman's chance". That is denoting that there is basically no chance of being successful. Now, is that comment racist - perhaps - but it denotes so much more than what is being said.

Is it racist to say that someone is working like a black man? - Probably - but it DEFINITLY implies SO MUCH more than to simply say that I am working very hard.

And, I think that you are applying your moral relativism to a language and culture that is not your own. (I am referring to your American culture and norms [my supposition is based upon the "Great White Shame" reaction that is prevalent in the United States] being used to relate to Spanish and Latin cultural norms and declaring what you think to be "right".)

Do not take this as me saying that you are wrong or that I disagree with you, but, don't stand up and declare moral superiority and claim offense when none is or was intended.

• i dont pose the question to claim moral soperiority,nor do i feel any degree of guilt.maybe the broader question is why do we accept such things - pat76 Sep 21, 2009
• That is exactly what you are doing by demanding justification. - Nathaniel Sep 21, 2009
• im not demanding justification so much as seeking understanding.i am not bound by revisionist history to believe in the edict of racial superiority,or social guilt.i believe in individual freedoms,and responsibility - pat76 Sep 21, 2009
• Just by adding the word "please" does not make this any less of a demand - "Justify please, the racist, polarizing, degrading phrase found in the spanish definition of..." - Nathaniel Sep 21, 2009

Answer 9

Slavery (in some form) is just about as old as recorded history. In the "good old days" when tribe A defeated tribe B in battle, the prisoners were either killed outright or taken home (wherever that was) as slaves. For the most part, industrialization put an end to this practice (it's not difficult to force a slave to pick cotton or perform other agricultural tasks or be a "domestic" slave) but it's not economically practical to provide the necessary supervision for a "slave" working on an assembly line.

The the economy of the American south (unlike the north) remained mainly agricultural based for some time after the emphasis in European countries had shifted to industries. As a result, in industrialized societies, slavery fell out of favor (and this, in turn, allowed those who objected on moral grounds, to express their objections more freely [it would have been "unfashionable" to have done so before]).

Once the idea that the "institution of slavery" was morally suspect took hold, most (industrialized societies) were quick to "forget" their own previous involvement in slavery and to condemn those who had not yet made the shift. We are very quick to forget that which we do not wish to remember.

So, why the equation of "slavery" with "blacks"? Simply, because it is the most recent (and well documented) case of slavery (and most people's acquaintance with history is quite limited). If one were to say "He worked like a Visigoth." (since some of the Visigoths were taken as slaves by the Romans), most people would have no idea what you meant (or, if you prefer, "like a Briton" [they too were subjugated and made slaves by the Romans}).

As Ikepueda wrote earlier:

Seems pretty clear to me...to work like a slave. African Americans weren't the only slaves in the history of mankind, and I don't personally take offence to it.

Slavery is, simply, a historical fact. On the simple level of language, to say "he worked like a slave/black/negro ..." needn't mean that the speaker approves of slavery. It can simply be a recognition of the fact that slaves worked very hard for no salary and very few benefits under (what we would now consider to have been) inhuman conditions.

As with many of the objections of the, self-styled, 'politically correct" to well established expressions, se trata de "Buscarle los tres pies al gato."

• Wow...you said something good about me...I gues we can be friends after all...;-) - ChamacoMalo Sep 21, 2009
• And I agree...but people get so hot headed and have no idea or insight about history. - ChamacoMalo Sep 21, 2009
• The defeated ones were taken home sometimes for lunch. It was common in Dobu. - Zoltán Sep 21, 2009

Answer 10

@Samdie...(and anyone else for that matter) quite frankly, as an African American, I get a little tired of the darned conversation of race. If it's not the whites screaming about the blacks, it's the blacks screaming about the whites, when the some of them lazies have clearly failed to grasp the opportunities in front of them. And moreover, then blame their own failures on white people. Oh...but you never ever hear of all the really good hearted white people who have risked life and limb to forward the cause of blacks all through the ages. Anyway, I'm tired of it all. Look, many blacks of African decent, American born slaves, etc., have suffered and died so that I may have this opportunity to talk to you, my fellow students in this place, take advantage of all that presents itself in American life. I really dont give a **** what anyone says, or what someone writes in a dictionary. I'm too busy enjoying the life and the rights that the others that have come before me could not enjoy. And by the way? Working like a negro would be an historically accurate description quite franky, as my good friend Samdie pointed out, however distasteful it is. So can we all get over it now and get back to arguing about how to say $250?

• Hi John, please do not post words that others might find offensive. - Eddy Sep 22, 2009
• Why not say something like "me importa un rábano". - Eddy Sep 22, 2009

Answer 11

I want to know why one of the google ads is for "Payday loans en español." Is that meant to imply everyone who speaks Spanish is financially illiterate and irresponsible? That's pretty racist, too.

Answer 12

I'm an African American, and my answer to you is...what are you asking exactly? Can we get some clarity?

• when i looked up the spanish definition of slave one of the examples given was trabajando como un negro;to work like a black.ive also heard this comomly used in english by whites;working like a nigger. - pat76 Sep 21, 2009
• hearing it said by an individual is bad enough,but reading it in what should be an unbyassed dictionary i find even more diturbing - pat76 Sep 21, 2009
• unbiased. I agree. I t doesn't sound as if it refers to any other color slave to me. However, we can't change history. Do you want to burn all of the classics like Tom Sawyer that contain racist views? This is a historical reference meaning working - qfreed Sep 21, 2009
• like a plantation slave. - qfreed Sep 21, 2009
• absolutely not,what i want to do is spread an understanding of the mentality that tells us this is ok.dirty mexicans,dumb blacks,greedy jew,white devil,the list goes on - pat76 Sep 21, 2009

Answer 13

if blacks werent the only slaves in history,why are thry used in this definition as such

Slavery against the Africans, especially the American form of slavery is the greatest and most degrading form of slavery in history. That is where the saying most likely originated from. Especially considering the large part that the Spanish, Dutch and Portuguese had in the American slave trade.

• slavery against africans is perpetuated as beingthe most degrading in modern times to create racial seperation.from the pharos ot ancient rome to mid evil fuedilism,slevery has existed throughout history. - pat76 Sep 21, 2009
• Yes... I agree, except the pharaohs are from ancient Egypt, not ancient Rome. You are merely repeating what I am saying. - Nathaniel Sep 21, 2009
• sorry,the pharos OR ancient rome.how am i repeating what you are saying? - pat76 Sep 21, 2009
• Me: "the American form of slavery is the greatest and most degrading form of slavery in history" You: "slavery against africans is perpetuated as beingthe most degrading in modern times" - Nathaniel Sep 21, 2009
• It appears to be repetition to me. - Nathaniel Sep 21, 2009

Answer 14

Well

In Polish we have idioms like

toil like Black = to work hard

pretend Greek = to pretend to have no clue about something

etc...

I personally never considered them offensive or "racist".

Answer 15

You all lie!!!

• Please elaborate. - Nathaniel Sep 21, 2009
• please dont - pat76 Sep 21, 2009
• If someone is calling me a liar I would like to know why they think that. - Nathaniel Sep 21, 2009
• Don't know why admin deleted what i wrote before in response. I was being satirical by referencing the insane and inane comment made by the Amer. congressman toward Pres. Obama last week. - 1nomad Sep 21, 2009